Testimony of Nita Whitten, former Abortion Provider

This testimony was originally given at a "Meet the Abortion Providers" workshop sponsored by the Pro-life Action League of Chicago, directed by Joe Scheidler. For more information see http://prolifeaction.org/providers.  Priests for Life offers their video, "Inside the Abortion Industry," containing excerpts of the testimonies of many former providers.   Order the DVD, "Meet the Abortion Providers" at http://prolifeaction.org/store

Howdy, y'all. I'm from Texas and that's why I talk like this. I'm not long and I'm not tall, but I am from Texas.

I was really privileged to be asked to come here because I prayed that I would have an opportunity to share what I know and what I went through. My testimony is very similar to everything you've heard today, but every situation is a little different, and I'm going to share some things with you today that I saw happen when I worked at the clinic. I'm going to share with you my own personal testimony of the abortions that I have personally had, and then I'm going to tell you about a miracle. And I believe in miracles. Miracles haven't stopped and God's not dead, and the devil is defeated.

I was hired by Curtis and Glenna Boyd in July 1980. The reason I went to work for Curtis and Glenna was sort of a long and complicated one. I grew up in a Christian home. My father was a preacher when I was a child. He retired from preaching and he became an engineer, and we lived a fairly normal life. I was, however, rather radical along the feminist lines. My mother was too, and to some extent I still am because I am a preacher, and there aren't a lot of men who think women ought to be preaching, but I am preaching to you today.

I firmly believe that God has called me to talk to you because we have a job on our hands, and I want to encourage you today. I don't want you to give up fighting about this. I don't want you to be discouraged. And I want you to know that you can win this fight. We will overturn these decisions that our land has made to murder babies. We will do it. I've got news... if there is anybody out here who is still involved in abortion, if you see me on this tape, we're going to stop legalized abortion in the United States. You can count on it. Mark my word.

When I went to work for Curtis and Glenna, they made really sure that I was all in favor of abortion. What was so funny was that I lied right through my teeth. I didn't know anything about it, I really didn't. I didn't know anybody who had one; I had never seen one; I had never been around it. All I knew was the word "abortion" and that I was a liberal person. I was very liberal, and so therefore I could work there. I told them that it wouldn't bother me and that if I got pregnant I'd probably have an abortion. That's what I told them. They believed me and they hired me.

I was a competent secretary and still am pretty good at being a secretary. But the funny thing about it is when you're involved in abortion, your whole perspective about life changes. At least mine did. I was really shocked at the reaction that my family and my friends had when they found out that I worked at an abortion clinic. I couldn't tell my grandmother what I did, so I lied to her and I told her that I worked for a doctor who took care of women. She thought we delivered babies, I guess. She didn't know and she didn't find out until just a few weeks ago, and she sent me up here with her blessing. I think that's wonderful.

Several of the people who I worked with were very unusual. The woman who was instrumental in hiring me, Elaine Clark, and I pray for Elaine every day... I really want the Lord to deliver Elaine because when I knew Elaine she was on her way to quitting the clinic. She wanted to leave and the reason she wanted to leave was she said, and I believe all of them will eventually say this, she couldn't handle it any more. It was too much.

Curtis and Glenna were pioneers. I'm not going to give you the history of Curtis and Glenna Boyd because they're so famous and they do so many bad things that we could spend all day talking about the things that Curtis has done. But I'm going to tell you what I went through when I worked there, what happened to me.

Elaine was hooked on valium when I was there. I don't know what she's doing now; I've heard reports that she's better now and, of course, she's not working there so obviously she's better. But she was really, really traumatized by what she saw every day. She was traumatized by the insensitivity to not just unborn babies' lives, but to life in general. Because that's how this clinic was run. It wasn't good. It was hard to work there. It was hard to work for Curtis and Glenna, and it was hard to work in a place where there was no love, and there wasn't any love. They'll tell you that they're doing this for the woman's sake, and, you know, Curtis was involved in civil rights back when the black people received their liberation. He was all involved in that. But it's a lie when they tell you that they're doing it to help women, because they're not. They're doing it for the money.

Money was the big deal. We made a lot of money. Curtis and Glenna lived in a very nice home. They had another nice home in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

They owned expensive things and lived like rich people do. They wanted to live that way and they weren't embarrassed to live that way. They made all their money on abortions. When I worked there, they did abortions up to 19 weeks, and we had babies bigger than 19 weeks (in Texas at the time, you could only go to 24 weeks), Robert Crist would fly in and do our big, big babies on Saturdays once in a while when we could get him in there.

One of the most interesting things that happened when I worked there was that I was trained by a professional marketing director how to sell abortions over the telephone. This man came into our clinic and he took every one of our receptionists, all of the nurses, anyone who would be on the phone, and he took us through an extensive training period where we learned how to sell abortions over the telephone so that when the girl called, we hooked a sale so she wouldn't go down the street and get an abortion somewhere else, and so that she wouldn't adopt out her baby or so that she wouldn't change her mind. We were doing it to get her money. It was for the money.

I paid all the bills, and this is something that I want to say to you today that will encourage you, but I want to charge you with something. Curtis Boyd made campaign contributions in large amounts to people he knew would be effective in keeping abortion legal in Texas and in the United States. I wrote the checks out and he signed them. I mailed those checks, and he was very faithful to send his money; I mean faithful, he religiously sent money. He supported their campaign. If you want to fight back, you're going to have to dig in your pocketbooks and you're going to have to pray for others to dig in their pocketbooks, and you are going to have to support the people fighting abortion.

One of the things that our clinic was very afraid of was bad press. Glenna had nightmares, and it's interesting to hear about these dreams because I'm going to tell you about my dream in a few minutes. But Glenna had nightmares. There was a woman who had died at our clinic from amniotic embolism of the brain, and I could tell you a miracle about another woman I know in California who had an amniotic embolism in the birth of a child and she didn't die. She's still alive and the baby's alive, and she's fine. That shows you God's side of it. The woman who died in the abortion clinic caused a lot of press coverage in Dallas. They descended on that clinic. Glenna even gave a big speech at the National Abortion Federation meeting about it; how she worked it out in psychological terms, and how she was so traumatized by this, but how we all were, etc. It won her great acclaim. It in no way saved that woman's life, and it didn't do anything for that woman's husband or her family which she left behind. I think that it's time that we call it what it was. That woman was murdered, not just that baby. Amniotic embolisms can happen at any given moment, but it certainly wouldn't have happened if she hadn't had the abortion.

I'm going to tell you some gory details that happened at the clinic that I remember specifically. There was a woman who came in the clinic who was forcing her daughter to have an abortion. This wasn't uncommon at all; it happened all the time. Since I was on the front desk a lot of times, filling in for the receptionist, or if they were out sick, I got to see this firsthand. I wasn't really as adept as some of the other girls because I wasn't always up there. I was usually in the back typing, filling out papers, and basically paying the bills, doing the things that secretaries do.

This woman forced her daughter to come in there and she was a second trimester, probably about 15 weeks. They had inserted the laminaria the day before, and she was in there and quite miserable. The poor girl was really upset and she kept going to the bathroom, and obviously there was something wrong with her physically, and when she went into the bathroom the next time, all of a sudden she started screaming at the top of her lungs. It's a baby; it's a baby; mama, mama, mama! She was screaming in the middle of our clinic. So I'm freaking out and trying to figure out what's going on. I called Holly, her counselor, and said, Holly, she's aborted the baby in the bathroom and you need to get the doctor right now. Well, he was in a procedure and couldn't come then. None of the nurses knew what to do, so they got her back there real quick and took care of her. But I firmly believe without the grace of God and the healing power of Jesus Christ that she's going to be scarred emotionally from having seen that baby in the toilet, because that's where it landed.

You see, when the girls come into these clinics, they don't .know, nine times out of ten, what's going to happen to them. They get a package deal--it's like going to get your teeth fixed or something. This is what we're going to do to you; it won't hurt very much; it's going to cost this--pay cash. They don't tell you what the baby looks like; they don't tell you how long it's going to take; they don't tell you it's going to hurt. And it hurts; it's a baby; and it's a waste of your money.

One of the things that happened a lot of times is that women would be referred by their doctor because they didn't want to have that particular baby. There was one woman who came in and she was pregnant with twins. She had a family; she was a normal person; she could have that baby; there was no problem having babies; she got pregnant on purpose but when she found out it was twins she decided to have an abortion because there were twins. She did it on purpose. Her doctor referred her to us because there was twins. So she came into the clinic and I remember when they took the little fetuses, the little babies, back to the lab room and they were looking at them. Everybody came in to look.

I went in to look. I wanted to see what twin babies looked like.

That was really the first time I really looked at the babies. I had never really looked; I hadn't been in the procedure room; I didn't know. I knew what they said. Curtis made films and stuff, but I didn't pay much attention to that because I wasn't a doctor and I wasn't a nurse. I was a secretary, and I kind of wanted to avoid thinking about those little babies. Because you see, in my heart, I knew they were babies, and I knew it was murder, and I knew it was wrong.

One thing that happened at the clinic that I worked at that was incredibly devastating, right before I left. Dr. Boyd had made an agreement with a doctor, and I cannot name this doctor because I just don't think it would be wise to name him today, but he was the Director of Fetal Research at the University of Texas Health Science Center at that time. He had made an agreement with this doctor to give him our large babies for him to do fetal research on. They did this, and I believe at the time, it was against the law. I don't know if it is now, and I'm not familiar with the legal terms because I'm not a lawyer, but I remember we were told not to tell anyone, and they only came in secret to get the babies.

What happened in the clinic, though, was the thing that sort of made me start thinking about getting out of there. They brought their research assistant in because Curtis is so interested in technology and all these weird things he liked to do. He had them come in and they dissected a baby for us in our lab room so we could see what they were doing with the body parts. They did that right there and everybody filed in and looked. I looked at it. I pretended like I was being brave and walked out. It made me sick.

One of the things that happened as I worked at the clinic was that I became extremely depressed, extremely despondent, and basically hooked on drugs. I had done "fun" drugs before I started working at the clinic because, you know, when you're that age, peer pressure, I thought it was fun and I enjoyed that. But when I worked there I had to take drugs to cope. I took drugs to wake up in the morning; I took speed while I was at work; and I smoked marijuana, drank lots of alcohol, and took anything else I could buy with the money that I made. This was a daily thing. I'm not talking about on weekends; I'm saying that this is the way that I coped with what I did. It was horrible to work there and there was no good in it.

In January, right before I left, I started having problems with my period, and I was on birth control pills and assumed that there was no way that I could get pregnant. Basically, what happened was that I developed amenorrhea, but I didn't know that at the time. I thought I was pregnant. Now this nurse who I worked with was just a regular nurse; she wasn't an OB nurse; she wasn't trained. And the nurses did ultrasounds on the large babies before the doctor did the procedure, and he would look at the picture, and they thought they knew what they were doing. They had no idea what they were doing. You have to be a technician to really run an ultrasound machine the way you're supposed to. They had no training in ultrasound machines other than what Glenna Boyd taught them. That was it. Glenna Boyd isn't even a doctor or a nurse.

They did an ultrasound on me and did pregnancy tests and couldn't find out what was wrong. They decided I was pregnant and they inserted a laminaria in me. I went home with a bottle of valiums; I had 10, 10 mg. valiums, and my husband now but who I was living with at the time, said that I took the whole bottle that night. I took them one at a time. I started at 5:00 in the morning and by the time I got back to the clinic the next morning at about 9:00 1 had taken the whole bottle and don't remember that very well because after you take a couple you don't remember things.

I was in such severe pain I could not think. It was the most excruciating pain I have ever felt in my life, and only by the grace of God can I even tell you about it. I went into the clinic the next morning and at our clinic they used nitrous oxide, pericervical blocks, and Sublimaze, and that's how they did the procedures. So they hooked me up to all this and my counselor was one of the girls I worked with and she was there to help me cope with this situation. They were going to do this abortion on me. They got in there and discovered that I wasn't even pregnant in the first place. I was just totally baffled by all this. Why did they do this to me if I wasn't pregnant? I worked for them; they ought to know better; how come this happened? Well, when I went home that day I was still in a lot of pain, so they referred me to the little doctor that they always have on call. I went to him and he told me I had a severe pelvic infection and couldn't believe that they did this to me. He gave me some antibiotics and told me I would be all right.

I wasn't satisfied with his answer so I went to my mother's doctor, and he said the same thing, that basically they did a terrible thing; they made a big mistake; I wasn't pregnant. Why did they do this? They couldn't imagine why and I was really sick with this pelvic inflammatory disease. They gave me some more medicine. I took the medicine and got over that, but I took off work for six weeks. While I was off of work, they still paid me and they had to call me to get the directions on how to pay the salaries. I was the only one who knew how to fill out the checks and do all the accounting part of it.

It's funny, because the girl who was the director of the clinic at that time, named Marty, is a Catholic. I was sort of baffled by her. She was an unusual person. She called on the phone and I told her that I never wanted to talk to her again. You did this to me and I wasn't even pregnant. Don't you know any better? What's wrong with you? Why would you do this to me? She just said, calm down, it's not the end of the world. I was still taking my illegal drugs and my legal drugs, trying to cope.

I finally got back to work,, and while I was there, in the spring, Marty and I were there. I came in about 9:00 and there were fire trucks all around our clinic and I couldn't imagine why. The funny thing is that we were struck by lightning. I am serious. It burnt out every major electric appliance, including the abortion machines.

No one was there when it happened. It was right before we arrived. We were shut down for a week. God did it. I pray ... Oh, Father, send Your angels in there and unplug those machines; cause a malfunction in the machines because if You stop them from working they can't work that day. That shuts them down.

One of the interesting things that happened at the clinic, and I'm going to be very brave and share this. There was a lot of perversion that went on through the people who worked at this clinic. We had accountants that were from San Antonio, I believe, an outside firm, and they did the accounting. They had come in to check with us and get my books and to get the check stubs and to reconcile the bank. They came in and Curtis decided to show one of his sexuality films. Curtis is a real unusual man. You'd have to meet him to know what I'm trying to explain to you. So we all gathered in the waiting room, all of the employees on Monday when we were closed. He showed a film of people having sex that had all this wonderful narrative about how come we should have "sexual freedom," while these accountants were there and all of us girls who worked there. Personally, at the time I thought that was real funny.

But I look back on that now and I am just shocked, really shocked. Because, you see, this kind of mentality is what's causing us to have a problem with abortion in the first place, that we can just have sex whenever we want to, with anybody we want to, that we can just do whatever we want to. That's basically what the morality of our society has become. You can't watch television in the evenings without being assaulted with adultery, fornication, things that are not from God. You can't even go anywhere where it's not there. What's so sad is that there are Christians today and Jewish people who have a covenant with God--they know good and evil just like we know good and evil--that those things are not from God. I'll tell you where they're from. They're from Satan himself. And he's set to destroy and to kill and to steal from you. If you let him in your home by the television or however else you might let him in, he'll take something from you, including your kids when they grow up. A word to the wise.

After they did this abortion on me when I wasn't pregnant and after we got struck by lightning, my husband (who wasn't my husband then) a mathematician, decided to go back to college and get his Master's Degree, and I praise God because he was willing to say, okay, we're moving. I really wanted to get out of the clinic and I said, I'm getting out of the rat race. I hated living in Dallas. I wanted to be a country girl. I'm still a country girl and live out in the country now. I wanted to get back to natural things. I was really kind of the "hippie" personality with long hair and drugs and free sex.

We decided to move and so I resigned, and at my resigning party, a huge party where we got so drunk that I really don't remember anything else about it. That was just the way that it was. Every time we did anything together we either did drugs; a lot of the people were involved in strange sexual relationships; that was just the life of the clinic. That was how the people who worked in that clinic lived. So obviously there is a sin problem going on. There were a lot of medical things that they did that I don't agree with. Like Dr. McMillan brought out, if they're such good doctors, how come they don't report their complications? How come they don't turn it in to pathology?

I moved to Nacagdoches, Texas and God put me where I went. I got a job at the hospital there, at Nacagdoches Memorial Hospital, praise God! It's funny because I told them where I worked and I had this funny notion that good patient care was what I had seen. There wasn't good patient care, but I thought it was, sort of, in my mind. I couldn't justify what they did to me, but I thought this was just the way it was.

I got a job in the medical transcribing department because I'm a really fast typist. When you type medical records all day long you learn a lot. You know a lot. You find out everything the doctor did, everything is dictated and I learned all about how you have a baby. I typed surgical procedures and I typed all sorts of reports. There were 180 physicians in the area who used this 180-bed hospital. All the people who I worked with in the medical records department were Christians. Four or five of them were Pentecostals, real old-fashioned Pentecostals who didn't believe in cutting their hair; they only wore dresses; they believed in holiness and basically were unusual women.

I took it upon myself as a radical feminist even though I was so burned-out by the job I had been in, to really embarrass them. I made it my target to embarrass them. I would cuss in front of them on purpose; I smoked my cigarettes in front of them on purpose; I told them all about all my illicit sex dealings in front of them on purpose, and I basically made their life miserable. Or at least I tried to. This is how I was. I was a wicked person. I had totally sold out my life to what was wrong instead of what was good.

Many of the doctors who work at that hospital are Christians. One of them in particular, Dr. Kagel, and I just loved Dr. Kagel, he signed my health papers so I could get married. He was an unusual man. He was never rude. Curtis was always rude. He cared about his patients. They cared about their patients! I was shocked! I thought that was the way doctors were supposed to be because of Curtis. They were real kind there and everything. I didn't fit in very well, but they liked me because I typed really well and I didn't make errors. So they kept me on.

Well, my life in drugs got even worse at this point because I was a miserable person, and I was so hooked on drugs that even then every day I would smoke marijuana and I would take whatever drugs I could afford to buy. I took just about everything you can take. I thank God that crack wasn't available then because I'd probably be dead today if it was. It wasn't available, or at least I didn't know about it.

What happened next is the part of my story that is the most exciting to me. It was Thanksgiving in 1982 and I went to a friend's party in Pilot Point, Texas. This was to be basically a drug and alcohol party all Thanksgiving weekend long. While I was at this party, I became pregnant. I didn't know it at the time, but I was pregnant. I couldn't really see me having the baby because I was taking so many drugs and doing so many things. So I went to Dallas and had an abortion at a different abortion clinic. When I got back from Dallas after having that abortion, I started hemorrhaging. I went to the local doctor there in Nacagdoches and he took me to the obstetrician/gynecologist next door, who I typed many papers for. He said, you have a cyst on your right ovary that is extremely large. You are bleeding profusely; we are doing emergency surgery on you now; you don't even have time to call anybody. My now-husband, Nathan, was in his final exams for his Master's Degree in Mathematics, and my mother was over a hundred miles away, and I was miserable.

My mind was going, oh, my God, I've got an ectopic pregnancy; they didn't get it; I have cancer; I have this and that. You know how you think when you're going into emergency surgery. They went in and found a cyst. The pathologist couldn't decide what the cyst was. I had a few pieces of placenta still left in me and they scraped that out.

My mother was after me. I didn't have a phone so I called my mom every so often to see how she was. I called her and she said, please come home. It's your dad's birthday; it's your brother's birthday; it's Easter; we want to see you; please come home. So I went home, and while I was there she begged me to go to church with her. I went to church with her and while I was at church at this unusual church where they take Communion and turn the lights down low and someone will sing a song, and all of a sudden it just occurred to me that I had to talk to God. I said, God, if you're real, I want them to sing this song. It was a song that I knew as a child and I always loved to sing. So they started singing that song. This man way down in the front started singing that song, and I just broke down crying.

I went home and I still was taking the drugs. On May 1st I had just had enough with myself. I knew I had to get right with God. I knew it. I knew that was the only thing that would help me. I lived out in the country and the only place I could go to church if I wanted to go I had to walk because Nathan plays golf every Sunday and we only had one car. So I walked down to the little church, and while I was at the little church, I gave my life to the Lord Jesus Christ. I submitted to Him completely and asked Him, if You want me, You know what kind of shape I'm in, You can have me. And He took me.

I became a new creature at that point. The person that I was before died. I was no longer the person that I was. I got involved in Christian circles; I was delivered from drugs, alcohol and illicit sex. Nathan married me one week later and we're still married. Praise God! This is the miracle of it all. There was a time in my life that I was so bitter that I would never be able to have children that I couldn't talk about it. I couldn't talk about abortion; I couldn't talk about this.

There was a woman at my church who had a lot of compassion for me. She came up to me one Wednesday evening after church and she just grabbed me and she started praying for me, and she started prophesying over me and she started speaking about this unborn child in my womb. I thought, she doesn't know, she doesn't understand. Why is she telling me this? I was just crying and crying and couldn't understand it. I found out later that I was pregnant at that time. But I thought that she was just praying for me because she knew I wanted to have a baby.

I had gone to doctors for so long and I had quit bleeding, and there was this unusual situation going on, and I thought maybe I am pregnant. The doctor said, oh, no you're not pregnant, and he gave me this drug. He said, this is going to start your cycle; if you take this drug in five days you'll start your cycle. I said, okay, and I took it, and I didn't. I went back to the doctor about ten times. Finally, they decided that I was pregnant. The doctor at that time said, Ma'am, because you have taken all these hormonal drugs and the one they just gave you, we recommend that you have an abortion, because if you don't your baby will be deformed. I laughed at him and said, you're crazy, I'm not having an abortion. I trust God completely, and whether this baby is normal or not, I'm having it.

While I was pregnant, I sang songs to my unborn baby because I had heard other people say that babies in the womb know what's going on. Well, they do. They can hear your voice. They know God; they talk to God. It says: Their angels are continually beholding the Father up in Heaven. They are a real live person. This is the baby that they told me would be deformed.

Johanna is now four years old. She can say all her ABCs; she can write her name; she can count to 30; she can quote you many Scriptures; and if you need prayers, she will lay hands on you and pray for you.

I'm going to tell you some things to encourage you today in your fight: This is spiritual warfare. The devil is the one that has abortion in this land and we've got to stop him. The only way you can stop him is by prayer and by intervention. Faith without works is dead. That's why I commend every one of you who will place your body in between anybody wanting to kill a baby and the mother. I commend you for that and want to read Scripture that will encourage you today and cause you to keep up the effort because this is what they preached to me just last week where I work. I work for Kent Copeland Ministries and I'm involved with people all the time who are going through serious crisis who need prayer. Perhaps they have cancer; perhaps they're dying; perhaps their loved one has run away.

...I would tell you that you must expose bad medical care. You must expose the greediness and you must expose the satanic nature of this. I believe that babies being aborted are just blood sacrifices to the devil. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if some of the abortionists who haven't been converted, who are extremely involved in this, laying their lives on the line, it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that they were an active Satan-worshiper. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I can tell you right now, there's deliverance for those people. God has deliverance. The blood of Jesus can take care of anything.

I want the Christians to wake up! Down where I am there are not a lot of opportunities for me to go and speak. This is only the third time I've really spoken to a major number of people. Because they don't want to hear the goriness they don't want to get involved; they want to sit back and have their cake at home and live their life. I don't do that; I don't want to be involved. Well, if you don't get involved, the babies are going to die. When your teenagers grow up, they're going to be confronted with the filthiness and wickedness of this generation.

One of the reasons why it is such a Satanic warfare is found in Psalms 8:2.

Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength. Because of thine enemies that thou might still the enemy and the avenger.

The devil doesn't want babies being born because he knows that in Genesis the Lord told him, I will bruise your head with the seed of a woman. That was Jesus Christ and we are his ambassadors. The devil hates you and he hates your babies. I've got news for him; he's a defeated fellow; I read the end of the book; he doesn't have a chance. He doesn't win. He's defeated.

You've got to be protective of the children that you have now, and you've got to be protective of the children that are in the womb. We've got to get together and pray. I strongly urge you to get involved in an intercessory prayer group if you can find one. If you don't have one, start one. Call out the names of the people involved in abortion, call out of the names of your Senators, your Congressmen, the United States President, call out the Supreme Court Justices' names. And let's see it changed.

God bless you all.

Nita Whitten

Something that Nita mentioned was about the pornography in the pro-abortion movement. In 1976, about 12 of us attended the first National Association of Abortion Facilities, then called NAAF. It's now changed to the National Abortion Federation (NAF). They were holding their first national convention in Rosemont, so a group of us came out to attend. We weren't well known, so we found some badges and put our names on them and we attended. During one of the breaks we went into the exhibition hall. At the end of the hall was a large, white wall. Being shown on that wall were the most obscene, triple X-rated color films with sound tracks that you could imagine. Every form of sexual perversion was being shown in these films. It was hard to be in the room with this film going on, but I was doing stories for the National Right-to-Life Committee newspaper at that time, believe it or not. At that time, I did four stories that came out of that convention, and one of them, by Tom Roeser, was an explanation of why the abortionists are involved in pornography and perversions, and the idea was there is nothing wrong with any kind of sexual aberration at all, except venereal disease and pregnancy. And both of those diseases can now be handled by the abortionists. The idea was to break down all of your resistance, all of your hang-ups that would prevent you from having a total liberal sexual life. They run hand-in-hand. I found that frequently at the abortion conventions that there are all kind of weird things going on. I just mention that because it supports what Nita said and explains part of this whole evil that abortion is part of. Abortion is a mop-up for lives without control, without respect, without responsibility. It's all part of a big picture in which absolutely we are fighting principalities and powers.

Q. With all the money that you handled in cash, were there ever any attempted robberies?

A. I never personally experienced that, but I always was in fear of it because I was the one who took the money to the bank every day, and I was always afraid of that. I always took a different route to the bank. No, there weren't, but we were in an unusual area of time where I don't think that a robber would be welcome because it was over in sort of a "hotsy-totsy" section.

Q. What was the largest deposit?

A. I don't remember. It was somewhere between $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 a day, depending on how many we saw that day and whether or not they were big abortions. It wasn't unusual at all for me to take $10,000 or $15,000 a day to the bank in cash, by myself, without a gun.

Q. How long did you work at the clinic? Is he still going strong?

A. I only worked at the clinic for one year. I believe that he is still going strong, yes. Sadly.

Q. Earlier you mentioned about the telephone. How did they teach you to sell abortion over the phone? How did you deal with the question of picketers outside the clinic?

A. The only picketers that I experienced were at the National Abortion Federation meeting. They were there and I thought it was real funny. It didn't really change things for me. It didn't make me uncomfortable. We were concerned about the press because Curtis and Glenna had this thing about not wanting bad press. There was a priest, however, who walked up and down in front of the clinic regularly. We never bothered with him because he didn't do anything. But I am firmly convinced that he prayed a lot of prayers, and perhaps one of his prayers was what saved me and got me delivered.

Q. What illegal things might they be involved in?

A. Obviously, there are many things. They did abortions at clinic I worked at that were way over 24 weeks, and I believe that they took money and didn't report it. I believe that it would be well-worth the effort of the IRS to get involved in that. That's an area where we have some clout because the IRS is supposed to be no respecter of persons.

Q. How was fetal disposal handled?

A. They basically put them down their garbage disposal if they were small enough. We hardly ever sent anything to the laboratory for pathology unless there was something weird going on and the doctor wanted to make sure he wouldn't get sued. That was the only reason he would send it, to keep from getting sued. Then, of course, we started giving them the larger babies to the University of Texas Health Science Center. There were clinics in Dallas, however, that sold their fetal tissue for cosmetics. Pay attention to what you buy.

Q. Do you know of any mafia involvement?

A. I don't know about that sort of thing, but I can tell you that all the people who were associated with the clinic that I worked at, and with Curtis, were really weird. We're not talking about normal people at all. I even thought they were weird when I worked there. There was one doctor who worked there that was working illegally. He wasn't supposed to be working for us. He was a resident and was only supposed to be working at the hospital that he was at, and he worked on Saturdays and made a lot of money. We weren't supposed to tell. There were a lot of things that we weren't supposed to tell, and that was one of them. He now is a licensed physician and he does work for the clinic full-time, I understand.

Q. Are you saying that every transaction has to be in cash?

A. Every single transaction that we did was in cash money. We wouldn't take a check; we wouldn't take a credit card. Now there were times when we tried accepting checks, but we kept losing money. And there were times when they did the Medicare and those kinds of abortions. But after I went to work there, we eliminated all of that and it was a cash only deal. I mean it was cash only. If you didn't have the money, forget it.

Q. Did you receive any sort of government funding?

A. When I first started working there they were phasing that out because they decided it wasn't profitable. But they did do Medicare patients earlier. In Texas the Medicare program is so messed up that they felt that they were wasting their money.

Q. If a girl had a problem and came back what would happen?

A. That's the saddest thing you could have asked. Basically, if there was something really serious they sent them to the little doctor on call. But other than that, they didn't do anything, and they certainly didn't do anything to help her emotionally or mentally. There weren't many cases of that happening because most of the women, like has been said, wanted to forget it. They didn't want you to know that they had had an abortion, and they weren't about to do anything about it. I believe Curtis was involved in some sort of litigation where he was being sued for some sort of malpractice deal. I don't know whatever came of that, but I do remember filing the papers for it. There were always instances where something could happen because it was bad medical care, especially at that clinic. It was pretty pathetic.